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John Ainsworth of Data Driven Marketing and Jane Sagalovich of Scale Your Genius chat about what it takes to double your online course revenue in this episode of Expert Coffee Chats.

You have an audience, you have traffic… but you know that there’s revenue you’re missing out on.

We dive into what John sees as the three main reasons course creators don’t make as much money as they should:

  • They don’t have a way of increasing revenue per sale
  • They don’t do enough email promotions
  • They miss out on converting a lot of their traffic onto their email list.

Watch the full episode to learn more then check out John’s Optimized Funnel Calculator at the link below

John is the founder and CEO at Data Driven Marketing. He helps online course creators to double their revenue through awesome marketing funnels. He’s been building funnels for 10 years, and is a digital nomad much of the time.

Access the Optimized Funnel Calculator here: https://datadrivenmarketing.co/calculator/.

Watch the video or scroll below it to read the transcript.

Hello.

Hello everybody and welcome to our latest episode of expert, coffee, chats, and weekly series where I bring best-in-class vetted experts for laser focused 20-minute interviews to help you gain Clarity and break through the information clutter that entrepreneurs like us are exposed to. I’m Jane. I’m the founder of scale your Genius where I help in demand professionals, build, sell and deliver high quality, online courses and programs so they can serve more clients and increase their profitability without working more hours or sacrificing their hard-earned reputation.

Today’s guest is Jon, Ainsworth. John is the founder and CEO of data-driven marketing. He helps online course creators to double their revenue through awesome marketing funnels. He’s been building funnels for 10 years and is a digital Nomad much of the time.

John, I’m so excited to have you here.

Thank you very much for a nice to be here.

Yeah, so I know our audience loves the idea of doubling your course Revenue, so I’m super excited to dive into this topic, but I want to start with a question. I’m just kind of explain what a Anna Liz. I know there’s probably people who like, yep, got it.

They’re people who I think have some misconception about what a funnel is and isn’t and there might be some people listening and watching her, like, I don’t know what the fuck this final thing is. So let’s just start with like, getting everybody on the common comment page of what a funnel is.

Yes, sir.

In my mind to funnel, is everything from when someone gets to your website, to signing up dreamer, less to becoming a customer, buying something again by multiple things is all of those like touch points along. Weigh a lot, of course, creators in to rely on someone going to their website and just buying it from them and, like, that, that works for some low price things, but it’s really not ideal.

But when you have the entire system and place it converts a lot more of your visitors into leads a lot more of your leads into sales, not more of your sails into higher Revenue sales, so I took so when I think about that process I call it a journey.

Is there a difference in your mind between a journey and a funnel?

No, I don’t think so. I mean, I think if you’re talking about that same process, and that’s, that’s kind of the same thing. Like the technical definition.

If you’re using funnel, software is normally the bits between someone goes to your sales page and then checking out and then buying the next, you know, if you’ve got an upsell buying something else from you. So it’s a, it depends on kind of what you want to call it. But yeah, the basic same idea.

Yeah, and I think, you know, when we talk about the funnel, I think the visual of it, you know, being really big at the top and Coming coming down there or so.

I get you’re talking to so many people at the top and then as they progress down down the Journey Down The Funnel, there’s just fewer and fewer people that are kind of more and more interested coming down to the final, you know, the bottom or we’re with customers and clients are.

So I do find it’s helpful in the visual sense to what I find is most people instead of really having a fun like that. They’ve got more of a like a leaky bucket, and it’s just pissing water out left, right and Center, you know, like just so many places where they’re losing so much money because they’ve just Not got all these steps in place. They’ve got giant holes in the funnel.

Let’s talk about that a little bit because I know there’s probably a lot of people, you know what? Let’s let’s clarify one more thing.
What, you know for people to really be able to analyze their Journey or the funnel.

Is there a certain number of people you want to have, you know, late. Let’s call it a starting at the starting part to wear any. This kind of analysis is useful.

Okay, so there’s two really important things. There one is, what is the sample size? You need to be able to do an Sis, and a second one is what are the opportunities where you don’t have to do analysis at all. Mmm, because what happens is, there’s certain steps that you’re supposed to have in place that you should have that you should be using and like this is based on like what is it that the 7 and 8-figure course creators are doing what are the steps that basically everybody does?

Who’s really successful with this? And if you don’t have one of those steps then just putting into place requires almost no analysis. Mmm. Because all you have to see is did, I’m did I, when I put it in place to then people take that action. So they get more people buying here.

Did I get some people, buying the upsell or whatever? The step is you put in place. Now, if you have a step, you’ve done it already. You’ve already got something that you want to figure out. Okay. I’ve changed. This.

Is it better that way harder?

You need a big sample size. You need a whole lot of people to go through it. You have to have, go do so difficult, significance. Analysis. Most people haven’t got anywhere near enough traffic to be able to make those kind of decisions, especially Further down the process.

But for a lot of places you just don’t need that. You just need to start doing the things that you’re not doing and you don’t have to worry about sample size and all of that kind of thing.

And thank you for that answer. I find that so important because I you do, I mean, so when I have a finance background, so I love statistics. I love numbers and I was going in, this is exactly the experience. I’ve had, I’ve never had large audience numbers, you know, I have a higher price products. I really don’t need the bigger numbers to make the kind of income I want to make and so I started.

Same. I was like, doing all this analysis that made no sense, obviously had no statistical significance. And then I was like, okay, you know what, I just need to for I could just follow the best practices and use a little bit of logic intuition to see what is or isn’t working. But without running some of the data. Yeah. I tried like an a/b test. Not nearly enough data to have any sort of, you know, any sort of actionable information come out of it.

Yeah. So I like how you distinguish the two.

Yeah. First, you know, He’s got enough data and they start, they got all it got better. It got worse. Did it did, it was it just happened to be a blip, you know, there’s a wonderful presentation. I saw once about how to tell explain to people in a way they understand about A/B test. So, you run an a/b test using A/B Testing software, but it’s actually an a, a test. Hmm.

So it’s actually the same version on a, and b and you see one looks way better than the other. I got. That’s the Good one, that’s the good one. And then you could have watch it come together over time just like because just statistical, significance relations mean that you can’t tell stuff for ages with so many of these things. Yeah, because what do they say, like to flip a coin and get to 50/50?

It takes a certain number of flips before?

Yeah. Before you’re getting to that actual 5015 for a while. It could be 1094, you know, for a period of time. That means absolutely nothing because at some point you get to 50/50.

Okay, and yeah, thank you for that side note. I think that is important because I do talk to people who I want to maybe test, I want to do this looking not yet someday, maybe, but not.

Yeah, that’s not where the value is. So let’s talk about, you know, the Leaky bucket without having the huge numbers without having this to statistically, significance can a tests and in the process?

Yeah. Sure. So there’s three main areas that I see people miss out, that people aren’t making money from that. They don’t have steps in place. People mostly don’t have a way of increasing Revenue per sale. They don’t tend to have enough email promotions going out to their audience and they’re missing out on converting a lot of their traffic into their email list. Those are like the three big areas. I can dig into each them if you like.

Yeah. Yeah, please let’s do.

So increasing Revenue per sale, is the easiest one and I’m focusing. Normally. Most of our audience is people selling cheaper products cheaper courses, something in the range of 50 bucks, 2,000 dollars, like most of ours.

So, with each of those, they tend to have a whole bunch of different courses. And what you can do is, when you’ve got the checkout page, you’ve got somebody going, they’ve put something into the car. They’ve they’re ready to buy. You can have something called an order bump and an order bump, is just a tick box with maybe two sentences explaining about this product.

It’s something that goes with the course that they are buying, there’s a really nice accompaniment and also known as to do is Tick the box and they add that to their cart as well. And we tend to see a conversion rate of about 60%, It varies based on a whole load of factors, but If it’s converting really well somewhere in the 40 to 70 generally around, 60% of people get that.

So that means you’re potentially adding about another thirty percent of revenue for every sale you get, which is huge. It’s like, okay. I’ve just added 30 percent to my entire business by changing this as like that. Yeah. And after profits. Yeah, because there’s no, there’s no incremental cost to having this after the initial setup know, and it’s so easy to do.

Okay, you have to write two sentences and if you go and Google order bump, you’re going to see everybody uses basically the I’m kind of two sentences. You describe the product you tell them it’s a you know, only going to be this cheap this one time whenever it’s very, very easy.

Yeah, and what’s an example of of the main course and then an upsell just kind of to give people some ideas of what it could look like. Yeah. So this is the order bump and what we’re typically looking at here is something that goes with what they’re buying.

So let’s say you are selling a course and you also have an order bump of a Q&A session done with Experts in the area about the biggest mistakes that people make when they’re implementing this thing, or an order bump, could be a workbook that goes with the course that they’re going through, or it could be recording of webinar where you went through a case study of it with somebody, you know, actually did a live walkthrough of somebody who’s got this thing in place and the thing that fits alongside what they’re getting, that makes what they’re buying easier or faster or a little bit better.

Got it. Okay. Those are those examples. Yeah, of great.

Another thing that comes came up for me when you’re using those examples. I know a lot of people like ho Summits and so it’s free the initial one, but then there’s that, you know, the replay costs ninety, seven dollars, whatever. So that could be a really, really good one, too. It’s like, yeah, here’s the replay of our Summit with these experts at you know, half of whatever discount they can get.

Yeah. So yeah. My see, the biggest thing that people make is a mistake here as they think. I’m going to open know the perfect thing. I could create and then they go and create it. It’s like that just start with something. You’ve got. What do you got, but that In place.

Yeah, I can always come back later and put something perfect in, but if you put something in now, you’re going to make a whole load of money in that two months until you possibly get around to making it. Well, that’d be nice. You’ll have yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I think you know the people like these experts to these professionals.

We have so much content that we may put out for free today, but it has so much inherent value and the yeah, there’s like, I mean, I just thinking to myself I can think of so many things I can I can, you know, take it off my free. I’ve met Free bucket, whatever. And then, yeah, use it as an upsell, like you said. Yeah, for sure.

Okay. Love it. Yeah, more more Revenue per sale more profit per sale. That’s huge.

The second one was. So, the second thing is about, how do you make more promote sales to your email list? Mmm. So the biggest problem, I see here. Most people do email promotions in my experience, three times a year. It’s Black Friday, and two other times. Maybe Fourth of July baby January, something like that. And if If people have got a whole load of different courses, then I suggest having one A different course on offer every two or once or twice a month. So if so, we’ve got clients, for example, you might have 17 courses. So we’re just cycle through them to a month for eight and a half months. Go back to the start. Again.

There’s two things. I hear from people that have problems with this. Why? They don’t want to do that one. They don’t want their email list to be annoyed and unsubscribe and to don’t want to take loads of time putting these things together.

So I’ve got really simple suggestion. This is for people who’ve already got a bunch of different courses of how you can do this really, really easily without annoying, anybody. In fact, decreasing your unsubscribe, right? So this isn’t the advanced stuff. This is like the basic one just to get started.

So all people have to do is every two weeks you send out one of these email promotions and in it you do six emails. Five emails are tips from in your course.

So, a useful tip that somebody could Implement and maybe five minutes and then the sick and in each of those emails, you mentioned there’s a 30% discount on the course.

And the sixth email is just a cock closing, right? We’re going to discounts, going to stop in 3 hours, 6 hours, whatever you want to do. You will make a whole bunch of sales to people. They will love getting those emails because they’re useful tips.

All the people who don’t buy will love getting them as well and you get to be helpful, friendly useful, people like getting your emails. You want your subscriber, open rates because people are getting useful valuable stuff and it hardly takes you any time to do at all.

I love that. And I think you know, and I hear that from people to like they don’t want to annoy their list and they don’t want to do this or that and I’m like one, you know, your list is yes is there to add value?

But it’s also your, it’s your assets. It is your assets. That’s an important part of your business.

So somebody’s truly annoyed then the by and then like you said, if you make them really valuable like that, there are people on whose lists I’m on, who use, you know, Strategy where there is value.

And I even if I’m not necessarily going to buy from them. I do love opening their emails because I know I’m going to get some kind of actionable. Takeaways that I can put an Implement in my business. And so, you know, maybe I don’t open every single email or whatever, but I do enjoy getting the value of being on those lists. And yeah, I’m a big believer that if like people want to unsubscribe them. That’s cool too.

Yeah. Yeah. So fun. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I used in the beginning like when I started having an email list, I would like I think I got an email. Every time somebody on subscribed and doubt, that’s just dumb. If anyone out there does not Jones idea.

That’s the worst idea ever within every single person. I’m like, oh my God, what did I say that this them off and you know, nothing absolutely nothing. So now I don’t even like, I’ll watch my overall numbers to see if there’s any kind of pattern shift, but there isn’t. So yeah, but I stopped doing that. It’s not getting those notifications. Yes, like The Angst setting, isn’t it? It’s like I would like to have more pain in my life, and it’s not a setting for that in my email Marketing System.

Yeah. Can I just get rejected a lie? Is that how does that happen? Yeah, not not something.

I recommend for, you know, being positive and and being able to show up at the stuff. So yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So emailing. So I like the rotating course idea, because I do, I do hear that question from people of, you know, how do I, how do I sell in a continual basis without it being like that? Do you have?

So a lot of my clients in a lot of people might audience, they will have, like, one highlight. Price program that they it doesn’t necessarily have launched as if it’s a group program. Otherwise, they take people in an ongoing basis. What kind of email strategy?

Do you see working best for those kind of situations?

Yes. What I like to do, there is segment, the audience and don’t mean only email part of the email list, but I figure out what are the different reasons. Why people sign up for your program? What different angles. If you go a different hooks if you got.

So let’s save it says something about learning languages. What? People learn languages for like, maybe eight different reasons for moving to a new country. They live in a different country. They want to speak the same language as their spouse to talk to the family. They want to learn it for work for fun.

What have you when you’ve got one course or one program or membership or whatever that you can now talk about in eight different ways can have eight different hooks? Different sets of stories case studies. What have you if you want to tie that in with doing a promotion, what you can do is that you have a useful set of emails, go out with different stories or tips, or Either appropriate for each of those different segments.

And the people who engage with each of those different series of emails. They get a promotion.

I see. So that the promotion only goes out to different people at different times.

People don’t see it multiple times. And you could even if you want to get really clever, say, wait, if they saw it last month, we’re not going to show it to them again or another way. Is, you could do it with webinars, you know, some kind of piece of content where the people only get the promotion at the end of it, after they’ve got engaged this, you promote the webinar. You have a webinar, you teach Something useful some tips from in your course, or you share stories or the overall framework or something at the end of it. You make through the promotion clients.

Let’s work on, that’s my favorite strategy. I love, you know, I think for these, especially these higher price, programs, 2500, 5010 and above the webinars are really helpful part of the funnel where people really get to know you a lot more than they call it through other formats, especially if they come live and interact and ask questions.

And yeah, it’s like, you know, when I email my list about the Ben are like you said, I do, you know, they’re valuable emails in themselves, even if people don’t show up, then The Vow that webinar super valuable. So it actually feels good to email my list a lot about these webinars because I know what amazing experiences and results people have just from showing up to the webinars.

Just from reading these emails. I was like, if they by awesome bonus, but it’s a feel good strategy to be able to talk about the webinars. Yeah, official webinars are amazing. And like one of the goals that we have, with all the times. We help our clients. Is that their marketing? You should help more people than the courses ever. Can, hmm, that it’s the marketing in and of itself is going to help way more people because not everybody’s going to buy your course.

So I like how can we make sure to help them and a bunch of people buy because I like, okay, I want the good stuff. I want the full course. I want all the support that comes with it. Great sign me up another people like oh that was enough for me. Cool. That’s great.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, and then if people can watch my webinar and read my emails and create a course on their own, go for it like a man. Thing, I love it. You know, I’m doing my mission is to have more people implement this business model.

Like you said, I couldn’t help everybody from if I wanted to. So naturally some people will have to do without my help and that’s awesome. Yeah, and so I love how you said it through my marketing, their Naval to do it. I love it.

I turned up to conferences sometimes and I’ve got people who are on my email list or they’ve read posts that I’ve written whatever and they come. And they tell me, oh, I made so much more money from from reading this thing that you wrote or for putting this thing together. I like, Wish.

Some of these people would email me more often to tell me about it. You know, they wait until this year.

I’m like, so I know it’s happening. I know it’s working really well. It’s really exciting it when I hear it from people are like that’s so cool. I did this stuff.

It’s totally for free for you and you then made a load of money out of it is great. Yeah. It really is.

It is the best feeling.

Yes, really?

Love it. Alright.

So let’s dive into number three and I think that was not transitioning enough of your audience from other sources into your email list, correct?

Exactly. Yeah. And so what we see is if people are Traffic on their website, the typical person like 95, 99 percent of people, I talk to are getting no point five to one percent of the traffic, the website traffic converts into their email list.

And if you’re doing pretty well with, if you implement some of the good strategies with it, then you should be about two percent. And if you implement all of them, you should get to about 5%, it rate it varies depending on the audience and in a number of different factors that lowest we’ve seen with someone is implemented.

Everything is 3% and the highest is 9.3. So what, it’s way higher than 0.5%.

Yeah, if all you’ve got is a newsletter as your opt-in offer, then you probably get about no point two five percent.

So that’s like the very bottom end of it. We see so you can get somewhere between 5 and 20 times.

As many people sign up to our e-mail list every month just from your existing traffic and there’s just really straightforward things to do here. One. You need to have a good quality lead magnet. Most people have heard that before. But a lot of people still don’t do it.

I see a bunch of places with newsletters to you need to put it in a lot of places. You’ve been to put it in your sidebar. You have to have a pop-up. You have to have it in your blog posts.

If you’ve got very long blog posts have it top middle and bottom of their. If you want to see a site that does this beautifully, go to paintable DA çç, they have X.

Yeah, there are digital painting company and it’s gorgeous because I’m a digital painting company as you’d expect their entire site. It is beautiful, you know, if you read through their blog post and you’ll see examples of where the lead magnet is promoted and it just looks really nice. You can see kind of how it works.

Second thing is when you have those promotions throughout the site, have it. So it makes a pop up here instead of there being a form that seems to generally for most people increase the opt-in rate.

Can you explain that? A little more pop in and see the pop-up instead of form?

Yeah. So if you have the form in the sidebar, so someone can see right. You can be entering your name and your email and then they hit submit. Converts less well that if you have like a little like a banner, I can image promoting the delete magnet and the someone clicks it and it brings up a pop-up on screen where it then ask for their name and email. And that’s now the only thing they can see on screen got it.

Okay, that makes sense. I’ve seen that. I’ve seen them done both ways. I wasn’t sure if there was data on which performs us so the button performs better and being an artifact like okay. It’s not a hundred percent of the time but it’s enough that just do it and then it’s probably going to be better and don’t worry.

About tracking it too much, you know. Yeah, the set-up time is equal. So there’s no reason to not go with this one. If yeah. Yeah. So then, the other place is where else have you got traffic?

Have you got a YouTube channel? Have you got a podcast? Have you got Instagram? What have you wherever you’ve got that going on include promotions of your lead magnet as well. We see. So what you want to do then is your point people through to a landing page. So not through to your website but through to a page that’s just about that lead magnet and we see My conversion rates on those pages, when they’re coming from social media, son’s been on your YouTube site.

They’ve clicked through to your lead magnet and then you get about 80 % up right on those pages, which is way higher than what you’d get in any other place. And it’s a few places on social media, you can do it.

So if it’s on YouTube, for example, you can put it in the notes underneath the video, but you also mentioned it during the video like casually. Say oh, and if you want details on this, go and get our free guide or training videos or what have you and you.

Ain’t them to that page, it converts, incredibly well, and then it allows you to use that organic traffic to get people into your email list. Yeah, and the other, and the other thing you get is like, you know, when people sign up for a freebie and then they have a really good email sequence that starts off like, that relationship is builds, you know, in the way, like your kind of controlling their relationship from Step 1, instead of like, oh they sign up for the newsletter.

Now, they’re waiting a week for our newsletter and then it’s a newsletter, which, you know, sometimes more exciting than other times, but rarely overly compelling to take them through the rest of the One. Interesting.

So one place where I know a lot of my clients and probably a lot of other people listening and watching like one of their visibility places is being a guest on podcasts or, you know, being a speaker in the old in the old days and hopefully soon again in real life sometimes virtually and I know, you know, talking to them.

Like I’m like, well, how do you know? What’s your next step for that audience darling? I give them a business card. And so what is what is your suggestion for? Getting that audience into your email list.

Yes, do something. Just tells people about like if he’s going to podcasts most Picasso’s to be like, oh, yeah, you can promote some free, be a lead magnet with the end of it. That’s fine.

So you promote that. Now you won’t get a ton of people from that the numbers. You get won’t be high because it’s a different medium. They have to go from listening on the podcast player to clicking through water, you know, hearing the details and going.

But you get very high quality leads from it. Tends to be people who are really Rested. The Virgin podcast, the super Keen are interested. That also can then go in the show notes.

Now, if you’re doing speaking, same kind of idea, but there is a tactic that I’ve used that works unbelievably. Well, if you’re allowed to do it, when you’re doing the speaking, instead of saying to people, go to this place, you know, here’s the website address, go to that, you know, get that, that lead magnet, you say.

I’m going to make it really easy for you.  I’m going to hand around some sign up forms and you just fill in your name and email to it in Block capitals so that it’s nice and easy for us to read and then you get you take a Right over and get your assistant to add them all into the system.

What I find is that when you do that way, higher percentage of people will then sign up to our e-mail list.

Now, of course, you have to check with the person who’s running the conference.

Is that okay?

Are you allowed to do that?

But you’re asking people, if they want to sign up, they don’t have to put it in there. Could just hand the signup form on to the next person.

So the audience I used to do that with. We had about 90 95 % of people would sign up. I wonder if you also get and I’m just like I’m putting myself in the experience of the audience and I’m like, yeah the person next to me just cite like put their name on a piece of paper.

I’m going to put my name. I’m on a piece of paper to. So they see there’s like a peer pressure thing happening in that too. Yeah, I want to make the lead that the reason for signing up from doing it. That way is say, you’re going to get a recording of this talk. I’m going to get slides, you’ll get the notes to go with it. All the stuff that makes that that talk more useful to their just enjoyed the talk.

Cool white. They’re going to want to go all these bits that go alongside it. Yeah, I love that. And so I want to touch on something important to ask you something important. So they put in, you know, with a freebie or on this email list on a piece of paper. Come in.

What are those four like? What do you want to do them with them immediately to make sure that they go through the rest of your funnel in an efficient manner.

So there’s two things. So the first one is, if that’s signing up online. Then you want to have something available for them to buy on the next page.

It was about 10% of people will be ready to buy something straight away and it’s like the time when they are most ready to buy from your email list because they’ve just gone through the process of they found you online.

Let’s say they searched and Google they’ve got through to your site. They thought you look trustworthy. They gave you their email address. They’re really primed. They’ve got the problem. Ready in the head.

We call that trip wire so time, I think from digital marketer and it’s something that’s quite cheap 17 dollars. Thirty seven dollars. You can you can take it out of your main course just like take out some little little bit of cool product splintering and then you offer that on that confirmation page.

You don’t just do that by email. So, and that stage, you can do clever things. You can add in the order bumps. And the upsells I was talking about before, when you increase, the average order value that, Funnel is not going to make you tons of money, but it’s a beautiful little place to have it in place. That gets people used to buying something from you.

So I had one client, for example. He put this in place and said, it took him two days to set it all up that drip by funnel. And he figured out the other day had made two and a half thousand dollars a month, every month for 18 months, which is not bad for something solo effort. That’s like that’s passive income.

Yeah. I’m like that’s $20,000 a day you made like, oh my goodness. That’s fantastic.

That’s what that gets really clever for. This is getting a bit Advanced is later on. Once that funnel was converting. Well, you can then send ads into it because you make some money back straightaway.

So you Spencer And I had to make some money back. Hmm, great. Now you building your email list for free.

So that’s one thing, but the other thing is having an Autos autoresponder setup after that. So providing them with value. Given them your most useful, your best value blog posts or emails or have you to get them to feel like this person knows their stuff. I really like them.

There’s somebody I should listen to and then after that you can make a promotion to have a few free meals and then a promotional sequencer goes out automatically. Maybe offering your main course or promoting your webinar or whatever works for you, but it’s whatever else you have in your system.

Yeah, you know it and I’ll speak from minute to the people who have small list, who are like this is you know, this kind of sounds like a lot and any candy but what’s really cool about the strategy Johns talking about is that you like you really only do it. Once of course, you tweak it over time, but it’s something you set up one.

So let’s say your emails list is only a hundred thousand people, whatever, whatever you think is low. Your number is it’s gonna grow. And as it grows, it goes into this funnel that over Time you really get to see results.

So it’s like you put in some effort on the front end tweaked along the way, but it really like it’ll grow with you. It’s not like you’re putting in all this effort as your list grows and stuff. So so I do you know, one of my favorite things is to like set everything up for the long term.

Like invest a little bit of time now so that this thing was tweaking is you know profitable for years to come. So so that’s what I love about the strategy you’re talking about is like yes, it is more success, you know the person with $100 list or The hundred-person list isn’t making $20,000 a day.

But at some point they will they can if they set it up and kind of grow with it. So I like that, this is all this is gone on this is still valuable. We’re kind of running over out of time. I’m going to ask you in a minute, you know how people can find you how you work with people.

But is there anything you we missed? I didn’t ask you that. You think would be valuable for our audience to hear. I think the most important thing.

So those are those are the things that are like the HD 20. That’s the stuff that works. That’s the stuff that is unbelievably reliable. Don’t go do the clever stuff. The segmentation or whatever you’ve heard about, until you’ve got all the basics in place.

The crucial thing I see people go wrong here is they don’t do it.

Yes. Choose one of them and the one to do if you don’t have in place is order bumps and up cells. Go through, set it up, make money out of it and then go all.

That was cool. I like that and then move on to tactic.

Number two. Don’t try and do everything at once. Don’t try and do anything.

That’s super clever.

Just put the In place and you’re going to see that it works at these things always work so I don’t John but I’m gonna have to follow up with you and like a month or two because I don’t have any order bumps or up sells my.

Like I only currently sell high priced programs and I have a lot of stuff that just these were talking about.

I’m like, I have so many amazing valuable pieces at might that already created my disposal with eight week or two can really easily be those. I’m excited to follow up with you and be like, oh, yeah.

I’m now, you know making 20 grand a day in my sleep. Maybe not in a month. But yeah, I think it’s it’s one of those things that I think I’ve kind of avoided because I’m the cool.

What, what do I put there? But you explained it?

So simply it is just you know, it’s an inexpensive thing. It’s something that already exists like probably, you know, I’ll throw something up and see what happens.

I went on a podcast about a month ago and the guy said to me, I haven’t gotten water pump that I feel really bad about this. So he went and set one up an email me the other day and he said I’d said to him when you’ve set up and you’ve made thousands of dollars, then you can buy me.

A beer and he said I set up on Monday. It’s Wednesday. I’ve made three sales so far that me a funds getting pretty going to be pretty healthy by the time I see you. I’m well, I’m amazing and just to summarize for people really quickly to remind them.

The order bump is the thing that goes on your Thank you page. So once they bought for the compass on the checkout page, sorry.

Oh, and it’s okay, the order bumps on the checkout page, the upsells on the thank you absol’s on the thank you page testing. I’m really think of that.

Okay. The upsells on the thank you page. Nice. Yeah, anything else you want to, you want to share for looking to last thoughts.

Yeah, so if people want to learn how much more they could make from their courses by implementing these tactics, they can go to our site, data, driven and marketing, dot Coast calculator.

We’re going to ask you a bunch of questions and a form, you fill it in and we’re going to figure out for you how much more you can make? We do this. We haven’t figured out how to automate this. So we are doing this manually for every person who feels it in. We’re going to figure out Or you how much extra money you could be making awesome? Yeah, so checking it.

So the calculator, how much more money you can make with an optimized funnel.

Really? I think it’s really helpful.

Yes. It’s so helpful to see like, what you what you’re really missing out on and like I said, what?

So realistically, if somebody wanted to optimize their funnel how much time energy and effort, does it take? So what we say to clients who are going through our coaching program is that they should be spending.

Ideally, I can hour a day on it to stop be implementing all. These things we’re looking to get people to implement all of the stuff that I was talking about in about eight weeks.

Mmm. Okay, so now and then it’s just them.

Yeah, that’s our goal to help people to double their revenue and eight weeks. That’s generally what West, what we’re trying to get them to reach to. And so that’s about how long it if you’ve not got time for that. You know, if you spend an hour on this a week or a day, every couple of weeks or something, to implement these things, you’re going to be good.

You’re gonna be fine, you know, you can Implement a lot of these things. Reasonably quickly. Yeah, and that’s what it right there. There’s a lot of incremental stuff they can do. They could really could do one thing and then one thing and one thing or you know, I know there’s a lot of people listening and watching her like no.

No, I just want to get like I just really want to optimize my funnel one time and then have it. Run and tweak as needed instead of doing like one one simple thing.

So no. Yeah, like no right or wrong way results obviously will be faster or slower depending on the really pick. But yeah, I think it’s II. I see this so much. See people kind of growing their audiences going on podcast growing, their YouTube audience and then like nothing is happening. They’re not.

Yeah, like, yeah.

And then one last question that kind of comes up. I have some people ask if they should grow an audience when they don’t have anything to sell to that audience. So there’s a couple of things right?

In order to make money from online courses. You have to have an audience, you have to have the overall sales process, the journey, the final, whatever you want to call it. And you have to have which unless they say out of the audience, the course.

Is and the sales process, you have to have those three things. What order you do you doing drinking? I don’t know, my Approach, the way I do it and I think the way a lot of your audience start with is you start with like the one-to-one delivery, you do the thing for people first because you don’t need a big audience to make a lot of money from it.

Then you turn that into the coaching program, which is like, what you teach people, right? Like I turned into the coaching program. Starts selling it high ticket that stage, you start to build an audience and then you can start. So maybe the lower level courses.

I love that system. You use for a lot of the people. I work with are people who’ve built a huge audience and loads of courses and just missing the bit in the middle. Like, that’s the people who were like, okay, you’ve got the low-end courses that like 50 bucks to five hundred or thousand or whatever. You’ve got a big audience on YouTube or something, right? You’re just missing the part of it.

So that’s who I normally talk with. But I think if you’re starting out and you haven’t got the courses and you haven’t got the audience, then your your approach to it. I think is totally The right way to go. That’s exactly what we did for our business. Totally.

Yeah. Yeah, because it’s because people ask, I like, well, I want to build an audience first and like, but we were kind of like unless you really know what your courses and programs are going to be like you’re kind of building a random audience that may or may not be the Right audience for your course, right?

Yeah. Little money at the time and that’s who yeah. Yeah. It’s like you’re just wasting money and hanging out with these people. Which yeah, the value is also questionable. And yeah, what’s the value to those people of being in your audiences? Yeah. Yeah.

There’s a lot there with it. Yeah. Thanks for that.

Answering that because I that question comes up every once in a while and I know I have my perspective, but it’s always, it’s always good to hear other experts perspectives on what they think is, is good here.

So, but I was like, thank you so, so much for your time, John. I think this is such an important topic if people with audiences who are not monetizing them to their best capability. And so I would love for everyone watching listening, go ahead and check out his calculator. See if there’s opportunity in there for you.

And if there is then have John and his team help you. I mean, this is you know, it’s Don’t want to say it’s simple, but it is like it. Like this stuff works.

It really does work to fill the holes in the buckets, have an efficient funnel that just, you know, really this is how true passive income happens that everyone, you know, thinks they want those, they want Fisher.

Yeah. Awesome.

Well, thank you for your time. Thank you, everybody, for watching and listening, and I look forward to connecting with you all later.

Bye.

See you later.